The Jazz Half

Cincinnati's Jazz Showcase

jh:  Let me thank you again for speaking with us today. We’re super excited that you’re coming to Cincinnati, and we acknowledge you for one of your core missions – something that is very near and dear to OUR hearts – which is to revitalize jazz.  What is the state of the union or, if you will, the state of the art form, in jazz today, according to Mr. Christian McBride?

CM: There are a lot of really fantastic musicians, both the younger generation and the older, so the state of jazz is in a really good place. As far as the commercial viability, I don’t think anyone in the jazz world has thought of jazz being popular in the mainstream since probably the 1940’s but nevertheless, I don’t think that’s ever prohibited any of the musicians from trying to create the best music they possibly can. So I think it’s in a really good state.

jh: We’ve certainly seen in our own city over the years a decline in jazz performance, both live and on the radio.  One of the reasons for this decline seems to be pure economics. When demand falls, supply seems to follow, and then the cycle perpetuates itself.  So, I’m curious, how much more heart and persistence does it take for jazz artists today to breakthrough?

CM:  Well, there have been a lot of alternative means that have been used over the last few years and there are a lot of jazz musicians now – a lot of artists in general – that have started their own labels. They’ve started to make use of the internet, to be able to get around the big, bad record company monster. And justifiably, I think that’s a good thing. If you’re the type of artist that is creating music that is not your typical, million-album-selling bubble-gum pop, you need a way to get yourself heard. And I think that a lot of musicians – particularly jazz musicians – are really exploring these new avenues. We’re still in the early stages. I think the next few years will see how it progresses. I think it’s a lot more work. If you don’t have record company to do that job, you know, the machine, then the alternative is that you are your own machine, so to speak. It seems to work for a lot of jazz musicians – Dave Holland, Ravi Coltrane, Branford Marsalis. These guys are really taking it upon themselves to control their own fate.

jh:  And how about youngsters? What advice would you give a young person today who wants to pursue a career in jazz, yet has to face the commercial improbability of it all?

CM:  There are a lot of young musicians that are really hip to this now.  If they are in their teens or early 20’s then they are already part of the computer generation. They’re computer savvy. They’ve already figured out a way to get their music heard. But the advice I would give to young musicians is to make sure they become the best level of musician they possible can.  I’ve been surprised by how many young musicians I’ve met who, and frankly I hate to say this, aren’t all that developed, and they’re worried about getting that out there and working places. And I’m thinking, you should really try to make sure your music is at the highest level possible before you worry about getting it out there. Because nobody wants to buy – well no, that’s not true; a lot of people buy not-so-good music. (laughs)  A lot of music that is popular is not-so-good. But I would say to young musicians to really hone their craft first and then everything else will follow.

jh:  So when its all said and done, what is your idea of success or of “making it” as a jazz musician? 

CM:  I think every musician makes their own definition of what that is. Does success mean you’re as popular as Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera?  For a jazz musician, I don’t think that’s realistic. Or I don’t think any jazz musician would want to be that popular. I think you just want to be able to play the music you create and have an audience for it. And whether that means 500 or 5,000, you just want to know that you have a fan base and you’re able to survive and really play the music that you want to play. That’s what a definition of success would be, in my mind anyway.

jh:  You mention in your website biography that exposing jazz to those young people who might not otherwise be interested in it is a one of your primary missions.  Can you tell us a little bit about that?

CM:  Three years ago I became the Co-Director of the National Jazz Museum of Harlem where we have a lot of different community outreach programs. We go to a lot of schools and we have a lot of free programs for kids in the community – and not just jazz musicians; this is where anybody can walk in off the street and get this information.  Some of the bigger misconceptions are that young people don’t like jazz or they just don’t get it, or it’s over their head. And I just don’t think that’s true.  What I’ve experienced is when you play music for a lot of the younger kids, they don’t dislike it, but it’s a little hard for them – the teens, you know – because they don’t hear jazz on the radio. They don’t see it on television.  It’s like discovering a brand new kind of food – it doesn’t go down so easy the first or second time. But you expose them to it, and that’s more than half the battle. And that’s the one thing most jazz musicians ask for, is just exposure. If 1,000 people can hear it, and only 100 people like it, that’s 100 more than we had before we were just playing it for our usual crowd. I think that at one point in time, there were people in the music industry who were more interested in getting good music out there than just having the usual artist who sells a lot of tickets or a lot of records. I think a guy like Bill Graham is so special because, I read his book and looked at the history of the Fillmore Auditorium, and he was one of the few guys who would even dare put, like, Led Zeppelin and Cannonball Adderly on the same bill. You would never see that again, in these days. And people would ask Bill Graham why he would do a thing like that, and he would say that each fan base needs to be exposed to each other so they can see what the other one is doing. I think it’s really important, we need to try and bring that back.

jh:  One of my favorite quotes from you – you were talking about how some people discount looser interpretations of jazz as not being real jazz – and I’m paraphrasing –  but you said basically that some people think every time they listen to jazz it should be a history lesson.

CM:  Yeah, I know. Jazz should be fun. Sometimes you go see a jazz concert and you feel like you’re in school.  And I don’t think jazz audiences in general want it to feel like that. Frankly, they want to be entertained, and sometimes jazz musicians get so caught up in the greatness of the art form and the history, they lose focus of the fun factor. And I’ve always been about the fun factor. It doesn’t seep in if it’s not fun.

jh:  You travel a lot on tour. Which town or region, or even country, has been a major sleeper for you – a place where you didn’t expect jazz to be as alive and well as it was when you got there?

CM:  There are a lot of places. I remember playing a concert in Poland. This was about 10 years ago. I’d never been there before, and the promoter said, “Hey look, there’s a little club that’s having a jam session, would you guys, like to come?”  So we said “Sure, OK. Let’s see what happens here.”  So we walked in and these guys were playin’.  I mean, they sounded awesome. We couldn’t believe it.  But there are places everywhere like that – all across the board.  However, just as common is the opposite. You go to places where you think jazz would be happening, and its not.  That happens a lot, too.

jh:  What does a nationally and internationally renowned and travelled artist know or hear about Cincinnati jazz?

CM:  Cincinnati is one of those cities where there’s so much of a legacy in jazz and R&B.  One of the things that’s disappointed me is that I’ve never had much of a chance to come to Cincinnati, as much as I would like to. I play Cleveland a lot. I’ve played Indianapolis a number of times, but Cincinnati is one of those places where for some reason I’ve haven’t had a chance to spend a significant amount of time. I’ve even been to Dayton more than I’ve been to Cincinnati, but I look forward to coming there. The last time I was there, I spent some time with George Duke. Actually, we played a concert with the Cincinnati symphony. That’s already been about 7 or 8 years and we were in town for about a week. And I had so, so much fun. Cincinnati reminds me a lot of my home town, Philadelphia. It’s a really big city but it still has that kind of hometown, small-town family vibe.

jh: You mention on your website that in jazz and in life, the art of communication with others is a skill that serves you well. And you offer a few examples of famous artists who also do that, or did that, extremely well. What is it about the people in jazz that, as a whole, that makes them so special?

CM:  Well, jazz is the type of music where you have to have the built-in communication tool.  It’s inherent in the music. It’s not your basic, low-level communication. Sometimes in popular music it’s not about communication – it’s about putting on a show.  And while that is most definitely a form of communication, it’s not a very deep form of communication, because in a way, you’re acting. People can somehow confuse fantasy with communication. You could be communicating even if you’re acting, but with jazz, what you’re feeling at that moment is what the audience is going to feel. Even if you play the same song five times in a row, more than likely there are going to be five completely different feelings in performing that song. So there’s a built-in, very deeply honest and true level of communication in jazz. You can take that which is already in the music and then take a guy like a Herbie Hancock or a Chick Corea or Quincy Jones who are just great verbal communicators. They know how to make people feel good, they’re fun, they’re really light-hearted but very deep on an emotional level at the same time. That’s why those guys are who they are. A lot of jazz musicians feel that the music is so heavy that they don’t have to do any further communicating, but they don’t understand that sometimes music does not say everything that you want it to say. When you can verbally pull people in, it just connects them to your music that much deeper. That’s why I mention the guys who have just enormous, fantastic people skills.

jh: You hold several prestigious posts and appointments in jazz society. You’re a dignitary and ambassador of jazz. Can you tell us about one of your positions or posts that’s really got you fired up for this year, and why?

CM:  All of them have me fired up. Each program that I’m involved with has a specific thing that it does, and only it does.  So, I get fired up about all of it. The Jazz Museum in Harlem, the Los Angeles Philharmonic which is more or less a programming job, but it’s an outlet where I get to live my dream out, to make a dream into reality. That’s how I got to work with James Brown before he passed away. Then there’s Jazz Aspen where I get to hear all of these great young musicians before they become stars. And that’s already become very fulfilling because in the summer camp I do at Jazz Aspen, we’ve already had cats like Jason Moran, the Strickland brothers, the Rodriguez brothers and others who are out there really doing something in the jazz world, who were a part of our camp first, so that’s very fulfilling. I’m excited about all of it.

jh:  In your estimation what does the future of jazz look like and sound like?

CM:  That’s a question I don’t think I can answer. I think if anyone really knew what that would be, we would just go there, because we would already know what’s on the horizon. Most things you can’t really predict. There’s a Herbie Hancock album called Sextant which is definitely one of my desert-island recordings. That record was made 35 years ago and it sounds modern.  I can only imagine when that album first came out in 1973 that it must have gone completely over everybody’s head. I think if you would ask Herbie Hancock in 1968 what the future of jazz would sound like, he certainly wouldn’t be able to predict Sextant. So in 2008, I can’t really say what the future of jazz will hold because there might be something that comes around that we’re not prepared for. But I will tell you this. It will be alive and well, the jazz legacy. It always has been and always will be, no matter what has been the most popular and mainstream, there’s always a place for true, undiluted art.

jh:  And finally, what records seem to be showing up most frequently on your iPod or cd player these days?

CM:  I keep my iPod perpetually on shuffle (laughs). So there’s not really a specific recording that stays on a lot. One thing that I’m doing is reviewing my own shows for the last several months so the band can get better. That’s mostly what I listen to on a regular basis, sort of nit-picking past performances. But on a general listening level, I’m on shuffle (laughs).

jh: it’s a privilege to talk with you and we thank you for your time.

CM: My pleasure.