The Jazz Half

Cincinnati's Jazz Showcase

jh:  Art, are you originally from Cincinnati?

AG:  Yes, Born and raised.

jh:  Are the drums the only instrument you’ve played or taken lesson in?

AG:  The first instrument I played was actually a clarinet.  But that didn’t even last a week (laughs).  My uncle wouldn’t let me keep it.  When he saw me come home with the clarinet, he said “Naw, you got to put that thing down”.  I had two uncles who were very, very good musicians; one played drums, and one played saxophone.  The uncle who said that was one who played the drums.

jh:  Sounds like he was a big influence early on. 

AG:  Yeah.  Besides my uncle, my next drum teacher was Oscar Gamby.  He was a trumpet player that had played with Count Basie.  He taught at Taft High School, and he was the one who gave me the clarinet. 

jh:  How young were you when you learned to play the drums?

AG:  Well, I probably started off when I was about 9 or 10, because, you know, they used to rehearse and practice in the house.  And I was just a kid, so I was, you know, running in and out of the house, being nosy.  And I used to go in there when they would take a break, and tap on the drums, and got a few spankings (laughs).  And one day, my uncle said, “Look, if you’re going to keep doing this and keep getting spankings, going to give you some sticks and don’t touch these drums”.  He gave me something to practice on called a paradiddle, you know, a rudiment; and it was the first thing that I learned – right, left, right, right, left, right, left.  I must have played that for hours, on anything:  my leg, books, on people’s backs, anything I could find.  That was my first drum lesson.

jh:  So how old were you when you went professional?

AG:  I was still in high school when I started playing professionally.  You know, I was already tall, and a lot of people knew my uncle, so I could get into a lot of clubs.  They would let me in, and older guys would sort of, you know, take me under their wing.

jh:  When you went into some of the clubs, you were already part of group, right?

AG:  Yeah, there was this guy, I think his name was John Thomas who was an organ player, he had a hit record out and, I guess he knew me through my uncles, and knew that I was playing around town and I was still in High School.  He asked me to go play with him at a couple places, you know, and that was one of my first times.

jh:  Over the years, you played with the likes of George Benson, Dr. Lonnie Smith, the great organist Joey DeFrancesco, can you describe some of those experiences? 

AG:  Well, one thing I can say, like I was telling this young guy earlier – try to be in the right place, at the right time, and be prepared.  In all those cases, that was what I think helped me.  I heard a great drummer, Tony Williams, I was 17 – me and Tony about are the same age.  And I would practice a lot, me and this guitar player we used to practice a lot.  And I heard this Miles in Europe; and this particular record came on and I couldn’t keep up with it and the guy who did the announcing said that the drummer was 17 years old and I dropped my sticks out of shock that somebody that young can play so good.  Then I found out that he had studied with Allen Dawson up in Boston.  Right then, that’s when I said that’s where I’m going – off to Berkley.  And that’s how I met Lonnie.  Dr. Lonnie Smith was playing in Boston at the time.  I didn’t know who Dr. Lonnie Smith was, but he called the school up and asked Allen Dawson to recommend a drummer, and he gave him my name.  And Lonnie called and said, “Look, if you ever get to New York, give me a call.”  Now I was still in school, but about a year later, I left Boston.  But when I got to New York, I didn’t know many people, about three.  Lonnie was already kind of established.  Him and George were good friends; they had a band together.  This was back before the general public knew who George was.  So when we met, you know, I go over his house one day and he’s asleep.  He (Lonnie) said, “Man, come back later on, I’m sleeping”.  See, he didn’t know that I was living with this guy, sleeping on his couch, the man had his wife, his kids, and it was tough, I was paying dues.  I didn’t want to go back to that guy’s house, so I went and sat in the park all day. Then he said, “Look, later on, I’m going to go down to this club and play.  I want you to come down and play with me.  I said okay so I showed up at his house and we went to this club uh, in Harlem.  And when we played together, he was like, “Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for!”. 

jh:  And so your working relationship with Dr. Lonnie Smith began.  So tell me about some of your touring experiences.

AG:  I was playing with Lonnie for a while, right?  And he had the same booking agent as George Benson, Stanley Turntine, Jack McDuff – these were all great musicians.  And they used to have something called the “Chitlin’ Circuit”; it was like clubs in the black neighborhoods all over America that black musicians went to, and played a week to 10 days at a time.  Chicago, New Orleans, New York, Detroit – every city had a “Chitlin’ Circuit”.  We were in New York, and we were playing at a place called the “Club Baron” – it was a very famous club in New York; and we were playing opposite George’s band.  So they had two bands, and our band… was smoking.  We were getting more play than George’s band.  So he came downstairs, and he tried to hire Lonnie and Lonnie said, “I got a band, man”, you know.  Then George said, “Well I’ll hire all of ya’ll – I want the whole band”.  But they knew each other before, you know.  But remember how I was mentioned about being in the right place at the right time and being prepared?  Well, like I said, they had the same booking agent, and I used to go sit in the office all of the time when we weren’t working.  George was always working.  So I used to sit in there, you know, ‘cause I had nothing to do.  And I wanted to see all those guys – I wanted to see all those famous cats come in there.  I mean, I’m just a kid from Cincinnati!  These are guys whose records I’ve been listening to all my life.  So one time George came in, he saw me sittin’ over there; he knew who I was.  He said, “What are you doing?” I said, “Nothing”.  “You wanna go to a rehearsal?”.  I said, “Yeah” so we went over to his house, and he said, “My drummer just called.  He said he’s not gonna make it to rehearsal.  Would you mind playing something?”  I said, “No, I wouldn’t mind”.  Opportunity.  George ended up firing him. 

jh:  Interesting.  This leads to my next question.  Who is the one person or group you would say you were consistently “in the zone” with, where things were clicking all the time? 

AG:  Well, the first to come to mind was when I was with George and Lonnie, because you see, we traveled together.  This was before “Masquerade”, and “Breezin” – we were riding around in a Grand Prix; drums, guitar, and everything.  That brings about a closeness…you know?  And that makes a better band.  The music -  the people hear something else besides musicians.  They don’t know what it is they’re hearing, but that’s what it is – living together, laughing together, you know what I’m saying? 

jh:  I sure do.  What is your gut feeling about the state of jazz in Cincinnati?  Do you think it’s the same as it has been for the past 30 years, or different? 

AG:  There are so many influences; things that have happened, to change it from what it used to be.  There’s a whole laundry list of things.  You know, people went out more often 20 years ago.  They felt safer – it’s a different world.  Picture me as a kid growing up, there were 2 or 3 clubs on one block.  Now, you might ride 30 miles and not see but 2 clubs – and I’m talking Jazz clubs, not just bars.  Year ago, you had “Bay Bakers” on one side; Coletrane played there.  ‘Cross the street, you had “The Cabana Lounge”, you had Sonny Stitt, and all the great players – I’m talking about across the street.  As for now and the next 10 years with jazz, these young cats coming up, you’re gonna be hearing more electronic jazz, with turn tables and all.  You know all the crazy sounds you hear on hip hop records made with turn tables and mixers (demonstrates a few sounds).  Jazz musicians will soon be putting those same sounds in their music.  Of course its not the jazz you or I are used to, but its going to be what’s happening.  You know, at times I wonder what would John Coletrane be thinking about this if he were alive today.

jh:  Yeah, turntables are a looong way from his style.  So you teach the drums too, right?

AG:  That’s right.  I teach part-time at the School of Creative and Performing Arts, and at UC. 

jh:  And I’m sure those students know how privileged they are to have you as a Teacher.  Art, thanks so much for rapping with us today.

AG:  You’re welcome.